Not sure if others have had this problem before, but this past weekend at Mid Ohio my lap beacon was getting intermittent signals on the track even though when
testing it in the paddock all seemed fine. When I went down to the pit wall to see if there was a beacon of my brand already setup (there usually is) what I
found was just past start finish almost 18 beacon transmitters all spaced about 8 inches apart. Now I don't think there are 18 different brands of data
acquisition systems and odds are not everyone is using a coded beacon, but regardless per the instructions of every data system manufacturer transmitters
should be spaced at least 15 feet apart from each other on the pit wall or the signals will interfere (and result in missed laps). So, please, if you go down
to pit wall to setup your beacon transmitter, set it up so that it will work for you and those who've already placed their transmitters. Please leave at
least 12-15 feet between transmitters for them all to work effectively. If you really want your beacon to be as close to start/finish as possible, get up
earlier. Tim
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Gaggle of beacon transmitters
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 SwiftDB6 |
Gaggle of beacon transmitters |
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Posts: 12 06/01/09 16:47:26 |
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CDS Inc.dsrforum |
#1 | |||
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Posts: 7 06/03/09 08:53:58 |
Reason 786 to convert to GPS and kick your beacon to the curb.
Seriously, beacon proliferation in the last 5 years was one of our driving forces to develop our "beacon and speed sensor replacement" GPS. The problem is that even beacons of the same brand will wash each other out when placed too close together. Think of it as 20 different radios playing 20 different stations all at once. You won't be able to hear or understand any of theem. Beacons are so.. 90's! Give Ellen a call at Veracity and she will fix you up. |
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race2fast |
Gaggle of beacon transmitters | #2 | ||
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Posts: 175 06/03/09 11:22:25 |
At the end of the day. I wonder how many are still there...and left?
Go to GPS..... no gaggling needed. |
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SwiftDB6 |
#3 | |||
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Posts: 13 06/04/09 15:13:39 |
I'm finding kind of hard right now to spend almost a full set of tires to solve a problem created by other people simply not able/willing to RTFM.
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CDS Inc.dsrforum |
#4 | |||
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Posts: 9 06/05/09 08:22:21 |
The problem has several sides. Some people either don't read or don't believe manufacturer's instructions. Many racers want to be able to compare
data from previous visits to the track such that they need to duplicate their beacon position each time. For some the solution is to use the track's actual
S/F line, or get as close as possible to it. This creates the dense population of beacons that tends to thin out as you get further from the S/F line. Most
ludicrous is the one region which insists on providing a 10' long "beacon zone" and mandates all beacons go in that zone!
I am afraid that it is an uphill battle to fight the beacon wars. The GPS is a significant chunk of cash to most people, but if you can not get reliable lap times that start/stop at the same place on the track each time you go there then having/using a data system itself is a waste of time and money. JMHO |
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tonysleath.dsrforum |
#5 | |||
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Posts: 2 06/06/09 08:34:20 |
In the 10 years I've been using my current data acquisition system I think I've only tried to set up our beacon 1 time. At every event I've run in
that time there has been at least 1 beacon setup from my brand of data acquisition system so I get lap times all the time. If for some reason I do not get
laps it is easy later to use the mylaps data and type in my lap times. My system software also allows me to move my start finish point when comparing two
different laps so I can line up the traces.
If too many people switch to GPS I might be forced to start bringing my beacon to the track. |
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David Arken |
Beacon Location | #6 | ||
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Posts: 22 06/06/09 13:07:10 |
We are very committed to being able to compare data from one weekend to the next and have established our own
location at each track. If it is not possible to use that placement on any given weekend we measure the distance to the standard location and our CDS system
allows us to move the location. Also our CDS beacon has several channels and we have our name car number and the beacon band clearly marked on the beacon, I
think I'll add my cell phone number. At the beginning of each session I have someone check the beacon and look for other beacons that may interfere; we
have always been able to fix the problem before the session.
tonysleath You have spent a lot of money on a data collection system and it seems to me that you are taking and incredible risk leaving your data collection to chance and assumption and in the hands of others by not putting up your own beacon. My data is very useful to me and worth every effort to make sure it is collected and available to help me improve. It makes sense to work with others in beacon placement but I prefer it to be my beacon in my location, very selfish but a good bet I'll get my data.
Last Edited By: David Arken 06/07/09 18:50:32.
Edited 1 time.
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Tony Sleath |
#7 | |||
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Posts: 212 06/08/09 05:47:24 |
David,
I appreciate your comments. However, it all depends on what you want to get out of the data you take and I can say I have been getting out everything I want with what is available to me without setting up a beacon. I can almost guarentee that at my next race (June Sprints) there will be more than one beacon of my brand setup up along the front straight. I have a choice to make. I can either use the trigger location of the first beacon someone else has setup along the front straight, I can set mine up earlier along the wall (which will cause everyone else with my brand system to trigger on my beacon) or I can put mine further down the wall past everyone elses and have it sit there and drain a battery and not be of use to me or anyone else because my system will trigger on the first one it comes across and has a timer to avoid picking up any other triggers for a set amount of time which is enough to get me past pit out. Now, if I get there and no one has setup a beacon that my system can use and I just get all my data without lap times, that's the risk I take. However, I can still get useful data without the lap times because I can break the data into segments and interpret the data in the way that I need to in order to get the useful information out of it to make a decision based on the changes I have made to the car for this event. So, I am not recommending that anyone necessarily does not setup a beacon but each person that uses data acquisition in their car has to determine what they plan to get out of it and how it is useful for them. For me I can interpret the data as necessary with or without a beacon. The beacon just makes it nice for me to see my lap times when I drive past it on the front straight and since so many other people use the same brand system that I have I do not need to setup a beacon to get access to my lap times. Tony
Last Edited By: Tony Sleath 06/08/09 07:15:24.
Edited 1 time.
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George R Main |
Beacon Gaggle | #8 | ||
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Posts: 139 07/29/09 10:37:36 |
One solution is to put your beacon on the opposite side of the race track. For several times at the Runoffs, at MidOhio, rather than fight "the wall of IR" and spend the time hunting down all the owners of the beacons, I noticed the opposite side of the race track was unused. Set up my beacon with a strong battery (that would last all day), moved the reciever to the opposite side and BINGO, didn't miss a trigger.... Beaware that the distance for a strong beacon "hit" varies between manufactors If your beacon is uncoded (ALA Aim) then a discussion as the "stupidity" of having more than one beacon needs to happen amongst alike users. If the beacon is an encoded beacon, then perticular care as to the distance between them needs to be taken and a buddy system as to using one beacon to trigger several cars needs to take place. Maybe a topic in a driver's meeting? It is a very good practice and a money saving one (left behind beacons) to have the team's name and cell phone number ALONG with the beacon code number printed on the beacon. Could solve a lot of problems Some beacons are strong enough to "blind" a weaker beacons signal, even if it's encoded and sitting a few feet away. In the long run, GPS timing will replace the IR wall and solve the problem forever.
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Topas |
FIA GT | #9 | ||
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Posts: 1 08/16/09 07:26:15 |
Hllo,
I'm new in this discussion, but I have to give a slightly different opinion. In FIA GT, GPS is not allowed for following reasons: - you are not allowed to send a signal to acar except an end of lap beacon - radio comminication or handsignals - if it were only for laptiming, it is not allowed either. The frequency used for GPS is outside the allowed frequency ban The main reason FIA won't allow it, is that they are afraid it will be used for some sofisticated traction control. I had this discussion also wit a friend of mine in WTCC and they have the same limitations. |
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George R Main |
#10 | |||
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Posts: 141 08/31/09 11:20:11 |
Topas wrote: Do they let you use wheel speed sensors? Far more likely to be used for TC, than any GPS signal. I don't know of any system that creates a control from space, as speed and timing are simply by location only. And I can't see anyway of TC controls with GPS. The same can be said for doing G force from space, it's only a calculation of position/heading and has no connection to the tires on the car or what the driver feels. What is the FIA thinking? How do they arrive at such a rule? Maybe more to do with the frequency thing, than anything else?
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