I realize that there is no S2 driver in the current mix, but I will be happy to try to represent your concerns in our discussions. But I need to be
educated more about your issues and the prevailing sentiments within your race community. In turn I will be happy to share my insight into the workings of the
rules making process. So call or e-mail me if you like.
BTW - In reading through the last couple of pages of posts, I am reminded of the issues we faced a few years ago getting the Zetec into FC. Change is very
difficult within the SCCA.
Sean Maisey
757-220-7312 work
804-966-4294 home
smaisey -at- cwf.org e-mail
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S2 Proposal
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 Sean Maisey |
Talk to a FSRAC or CRB member near you. | #281 | ||
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Posts: 8 06/26/09 07:32:03 |
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vlamanna |
#282 | |||
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Posts: 310 06/26/09 10:00:38 |
Charles Comment
"Another point: you would be surprised at how many racers will say they have/will write the CRB but just never get around to it. " This is exactly my point! I constantly hear from individuals on the bd about how few people actually write in; That being said, how is it that my petition from current National competitors and such with approx. 17 signatures along with member ID's went no where?? I guess I have to take that as a slam about poorly written... I think I covered everything for A-Z with all sorts of reasons and examples... I also spent much time trying to talk to people on the phone. My feeling from all of this, is that this process like the previous poster stated, needs transparency and utilize some of the modern tools and techniques to reach out to it's members. Seems like it's either a big secret or a big black hole. Maybe if I can dig up my original proposals I will post them on another thread to see what other feel. This would also give Sean an idea about this particular topic... Vince |
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Charles Warner |
#283 | |||
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Posts: 763 06/26/09 19:54:49 |
vlamanna wrote:Vince, That would be 17 inputs. How about the many who wrote in espousing the other side but are not vocal on bulletin boards? Your desire for total transparency will lead eventually to anarchy. There has to be some measure of acceptance and trust. There was no slam about your proposal as being poorly written. You would be amazed, however, at how many are and, as such, are probably given less consideration. And, AFAIK, no special treatment is given to national drivers over regional ones. IIRC, the regional guys were more in favor of keeping the rules constant, and there were quite a few of them.
Charlie Warner
fatto gatto racing |
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mbrandt1402 |
#284 | |||
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Posts: 316 06/26/09 21:06:43 |
Charles, maybe not total transparency. That does sound a little like anarchy.
However, the explanation for rejection is often just a one liner, and if someone is passionate about the change it would be beneficial to know if it was 15% or 50% of the responders that were against the proposal. If the tide of opinion is strongly against, then it is just a bad idea. If there is some dissent, maybe the idea is a good one, but it needs a tweak. We aren't getting that kind of feedback. |
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85TIGA |
Gone from Racing | #285 | ||
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Posts: 25 06/28/09 04:23:55 |
This is just the same OLD B.S. The rules makers do what ever they want even in the face of total support for a rules change(alum. calipers just one
example). The FACTS are there right in front of your face !!! just one example. Long time Sports 2000 owner ,driver and supporter John Green(hope I am not
miss representing you John) got out and back in then went Vintage and finally out of the sport because SCCA and the way they run things(that is putting it
very nicely!!). In vintage right now the S2000 group handles their own rules and that seems to be working great for them. NO ONE can say they are acting in
the interest of the class when they are handed a petition by the active class dues paying members and then they IGNORE it !!
show me some thing that proves me wrong ,PLEASE BY the way I am not a member anymore!! Gone Vintage see ya!! Lee A. Jordan owner of a 85 Tiga Sports 2000 |
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Messenger Racing |
#286 | |||
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Posts: 133 06/28/09 05:13:45 |
So let me get this right, you guys are calling Charles a liar?
Ok got it? Such a great group of folks. Once again, I will say that the glass is half full not half empty. Get a grip and become part of the solution using the established proceedures instead of flaming to a small group of folks on the web. I think we can be bigger than that for the best interest of the class. JM |
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rajaracer |
Back to our regularly scheduled program..... | #287 | ||
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Posts: 301 06/29/09 04:52:27 |
what were we talking about? oh yeah, a new engine
 i'd like to clarify my position about this proposal. i firmly believe we need a new, modern engine. I also believe we need to bump the output to
keep us on the same relative level with the other classes we normally race with. However, I don't want to have a ton of new things to deal with all at
once (simple minded me ). in order to not
disenfranchise anyone, I believe the proposal states the engine will be developed so the power ouput is similar to the Pinto, and I support the proposal. I
also believe the proposal should be approved and put in place for 2010. In order to attract new entrants to the class, I believe we need to be running hp in
the 165-170 range, as this will allow our cars to more adequately compete with the others classes on track with us (less dive-bombing in the turns, less us
having issues with mid-pack C&D cars slowing us in the turns, and drag racing away on the straights).
my 2c marc |
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Matthew DiRenzo |
#288 | |||
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Posts: 103 06/29/09 05:22:00 |
Just to further clarify what Marc said... The proposal doesn't include any provision for increasing the MZR's HP. During the multi-year discussions
that birthed this proposal, many people expressed a desire for more HP in order to make running against FMs, FEs, etc. easier for S2s. Admittedly, those cars
can be a nuisance due to their higher straightline speed. While we agree that bumping HP is a viable long-term option, the current economic climate and
general class situation makes it wise to start out with HP equal to the Pinto. Right now, we need a real transition period. Down the road, if the MZR is
widely adopted and a huge success, we can raise bumping the class's HP as a separate discussion. First, it's more important to get these mechanical
specs in place and out there in the wild. For the record, I'm committed to running the Pinto in year 1 as a relative benchmark for the MZR. Yes, we have
a test plan to make sure it all works out "on track."
Last Edited By: Matthew DiRenzo 06/29/09 05:24:41.
Edited 1 time.
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Lola Bruce |
#289 | |||
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Posts: 39 06/29/09 16:38:54 |
Matthew do you drive a S2000?
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 Jim Colombotos |
Awe cmon! | #290 | ||
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Posts: 593 06/29/09 18:58:14 |
Gee where have I heard that before lol if you are asking an honest question yes he did drive a s2 to the runoffs if you are being a smarty pants yes and he is
faster than you
 lol if this mzr idea just chaps your hide please feel free to beat up the proposal. But beating up A fellow s2 driver is just not right Xoxo
Jimmy
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Lola Bruce |
#291 | |||
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Posts: 40 06/30/09 16:10:08 |
I guess the answer is yes. And many of you guys are faster than I. Do I have as mutch fun peddling as fast as I can? Also yes.
I am about three years old in S2. This is nothing compared to many of you, but I do race and love S2. I was only asking if Matthew races in S2. When someone presents authoritive information on the proposal I believe thier participation in S2 gives that presentation weight. Sorry I ment nothing negitive. By the way all my posts are strongly for MRZ. What ever is adopted if anything is not likely going to be every-thing to every-one. I just hope it is going to bring S2 into the gotta have one.
Last Edited By: Lola Bruce 06/30/09 16:19:40.
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Bruce Allison 87 |
#292 | |||
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Posts: 236 06/30/09 16:18:39 |
Don't take the "faster than you" as an insult by a guy who's never seen you race Bruce....Matt's faster than all but a very select
handful of S2 drivers.
BA |
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Matthew DiRenzo |
#293 | |||
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Posts: 104 06/30/09 17:15:57 |
The last few posts have irreparably damaged my ego.
Lola 91/90 SR71, NE Div. If I wasn't part of the class, it wouldn't be my place to propose anything at all. |
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Jim Colombotos |
My apologies | #294 | ||
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Posts: 594 06/30/09 22:42:57 |
LB,
I regret not adding..... BTW, You are likely faster than me, to my earlier post 
Welcome to the group, look forward to racing with you down the road. My apologies for coming across rude.
Last Edited By: Jim Colombotos 06/30/09 23:38:57.
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Tigaman |
#295 | |||
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Posts: 3118 07/01/09 02:47:50 Administrator |
Matthew DiRenzo wrote: Riiiight!
Folks, Matt's got one of the strongest "heads" in Club Racing, period. That's what happens when you function at that high a level for that long in DSR and S2... OT, Matt, we missed you at Summit. You'd have enjoyed running with David Clubine and I.
-Peter
www.peterkrause.net "The Driver is the Greatest Performance Variable in the Racing Equation." |
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Matthew DiRenzo |
#296 | |||
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Posts: 105 07/01/09 06:51:12 |
For anyone who doubts that we're talking about the survival of S2 as an SCCA national class, take a look at the latest participation numbers (through
June):
http://www.scca.com/docum...pation%20MASTER_JUNE.pdf Back near the bottom, just above 2.5 avg. entries per race. I would've liked to race with you at Summit or NJMP later in the year, but between the budget hit of an engine + gearbox rebuild and the participation numbers, I've committed to doing as many nationals as possible. There was some talk about a bunch of vintage guys entering the Pocono double national. Any chance we could organize a decent turnout there? Only 3 cars (including me) registered for the Glen right now... disappointing. |
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mbrandt1402 |
#297 | |||
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Posts: 321 07/01/09 11:29:38 |
Doin' my part this weekend - racing the old sled in the Portland double national.
Unemployment benefits don't stretch as far racing an S2 as they did in the late '80s running F440. |
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ckracing |
Just curious? | #298 | ||
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Posts: 292 07/01/09 15:55:27 |
Matt D. -
Did you buy a car or are you still running Terrence's? -Chris Knosp |
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Tigaman |
#299 | |||
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Posts: 3121 07/01/09 16:52:20 Administrator |
mbrandt1402 wrote: Glad to hear that. Good luck!
-Peter
www.peterkrause.net "The Driver is the Greatest Performance Variable in the Racing Equation." |
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vlamanna |
The Glen National | #300 | ||
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Posts: 314 07/01/09 20:11:41 |
I'm planning on going to the Glen, still unemployed, but I have a full tank of $4.50/gal fuel in the motorhome from last fall and a decent set of tires
from my last race, and this is the closest track to me, so for the cost of weekend race fuel and an entry fee it may be the only race I can do this year...
:-( this economy sucks...
"In the Spirit of the Sport".... Vince |
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